My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be doing
this in two ways. First, we will be offering him through stud service and
second, we will be acquiring a female within the next year.

I ordered the 5 generation pedigree for each of his parents from the AKC. I
just now noticed that the same male was used three generations back on his
father's side and two generations back on his mother's side. I am wondering
how big of a deal this is.

Since Weimaraners are a somewhat rare breed, there is bound to be some
inbreeding. I would like to know where professionals draw the line as to
what is unacceptable, e.g. litters from the same litter-mates, litters
between a parent and offspring, etc.

Also, if inbreeding is such a big issue, why doesn't the AKC have standards
and prerequisites for registration, e.g. "We don't offer registration for
inbred dogs."

From: "Hercule Poirot"

My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be doing
this in two ways. First, we will be offering him through stud service and
second, we will be acquiring a female within the next year.

What is your goal in breeding him?

I ordered the 5 generation pedigree for each of his parents from the AKC.

You didn't have this from your breeder?

I
just now noticed that the same male was used three generations back on his
father's side and two generations back on his mother's side. I am wondering
how big of a deal this is.

Not much.

Since Weimaraners are a somewhat rare breed,

Not really. According to the AKC website, Weimaraners rank 29 of 148 breeds
in 2003 with 8,763 registrations.

What does your dog offer the breed?




Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

"Hercule Poirot" wrote in message
...
My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be
doing
this in two ways. First, we will be offering him through stud service and
second, we will be acquiring a female within the next year.

I ordered the 5 generation pedigree for each of his parents from the AKC.
I
just now noticed that the same male was used three generations back on his
father's side and two generations back on his mother's side. I am
wondering
how big of a deal this is.

Since Weimaraners are a somewhat rare breed, there is bound to be some
inbreeding. I would like to know where professionals draw the line as to
what is unacceptable, e.g. litters from the same litter-mates, litters
between a parent and offspring, etc.

Also, if inbreeding is such a big issue, why doesn't the AKC have
standards
and prerequisites for registration, e.g. "We don't offer registration for
inbred dogs."



Inbreeding is not a good thing or a bad thing. You have to know what's
behind those lines. Odds are, that *one* male that's appeared twice has
some really strong positive traits in his lines. If you go farther back,
you'll probably find he's got more relations.

However, that isn't inbreeding. It's a linebreeding. Inbreeding is
mother/son, father/daughter, brother/sister. An inbreeding sets
traits--both good and bad. If there aren't any skeletons in those closets,
an inbreeding can produce some awesome puppies.

More importantly, what does your dog provide the breed, and what skeletons
are hiding in HIS closet? If someone linebreeds on him two or three
generations down the road, are there any hidden traits that they may not be
aware of?

Also, Weims are not "rare" by any stretch, they are quite popular in the
show and field venues.

--
Emily Carroll
Fluttervale Labradors: www.fluttervale.com
CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/


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J1TROLL-

I see that a lot of what you do in this NG is antagonize people. Why don't
you do everyone a favor and shut the **** up? Especially when you have
NOTHING constructive to say.

-HP

"J1Boss" wrote in message
...
From: "Hercule Poirot"

My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be
doing
this in two ways. First, we will be offering him through stud service
and
second, we will be acquiring a female within the next year.

What is your goal in breeding him?

I ordered the 5 generation pedigree for each of his parents from the AKC.

You didn't have this from your breeder?

I
just now noticed that the same male was used three generations back on
his
father's side and two generations back on his mother's side. I am
wondering
how big of a deal this is.

Not much.

Since Weimaraners are a somewhat rare breed,

Not really. According to the AKC website, Weimaraners rank 29 of 148
breeds
in 2003 with 8,763 registrations.

What does your dog offer the breed?




Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

From: "Hercule Poirot"

J1TROLL-

uh no - pot - kettle - black

You aren't someone seriously interested in your breed or your dog, you're out
to make a buck - it's very clear now - thanks for making that obvious.


Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

E-

Thanks for the informative post. You bring up good points about the
difference between line-breeding and in-breeding.

Our dog has a great temperament and is extremely smart.

Notice I said "somewhat rare" not "totally rare". Sure, in field
competitions there are probably a representative number, just like there are
a lot of cars that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds at the Indy500.

We are finding that many folks would like Weims as pets, based on seeing our
fine dogs, and are unable to find any. I myself searched for several months
until I found a decent breeder and the perfect pups.

We go to many dog parks, beaches, etc. all over southern california. When
we see lab after lab, etc. and NO other weims, that says to me that they are
"somewhat rare" in our part of the world.

I don't think going by ranking in number of AKC registrations is a very
reliable way of telling how popular/rare a dog is in society. For instance,
let's say that 95% of all Weimaraners in the US are AKC registered, that
would be 9736, based on J1TROLL's figure of 8763 in 2003. Further, let's
say that only 20% of all Labs are AKC registered and maybe that is 5000 in
2003. That would mean that the real number of labs out there is really
25000. If you simply compared the AKC registrations, it would seem that
Weims are more popular than Labs when in reality what you are seeing is that
Weim owners are more interested in AKC registration than Lab owners.

Lastly, not that it's a huge indicator, but when most people have no idea
what breed our dogs are that says to me that it is "somewhat rare". If it
was a hugely popular breed, more folks would say "Naturally, that's a
Weimaraner."

-HP

"Emily Carroll" wrote in message
...
"Hercule Poirot" wrote in message
...
My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be
doing
this in two ways. First, we will be offering him through stud service
and
second, we will be acquiring a female within the next year.

I ordered the 5 generation pedigree for each of his parents from the
AKC.
I
just now noticed that the same male was used three generations back on
his
father's side and two generations back on his mother's side. I am
wondering
how big of a deal this is.

Since Weimaraners are a somewhat rare breed, there is bound to be some
inbreeding. I would like to know where professionals draw the line as
to
what is unacceptable, e.g. litters from the same litter-mates, litters
between a parent and offspring, etc.

Also, if inbreeding is such a big issue, why doesn't the AKC have
standards
and prerequisites for registration, e.g. "We don't offer registration
for
inbred dogs."



Inbreeding is not a good thing or a bad thing. You have to know what's
behind those lines. Odds are, that *one* male that's appeared twice has
some really strong positive traits in his lines. If you go farther back,
you'll probably find he's got more relations.

However, that isn't inbreeding. It's a linebreeding. Inbreeding is
mother/son, father/daughter, brother/sister. An inbreeding sets
traits--both good and bad. If there aren't any skeletons in those
closets,
an inbreeding can produce some awesome puppies.

More importantly, what does your dog provide the breed, and what skeletons
are hiding in HIS closet? If someone linebreeds on him two or three
generations down the road, are there any hidden traits that they may not
be
aware of?

Also, Weims are not "rare" by any stretch, they are quite popular in the
show and field venues.

--
Emily Carroll
Fluttervale Labradors: www.fluttervale.com
CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Hercule Poirot" wrote in
:

J1TROLL-

I see that a lot of what you do in this NG is antagonize people. Why
don't you do everyone a favor and shut the **** up? Especially when
you have NOTHING constructive to say.

-HP

I must respectfully disagree:

She asked the most basic questions, quite politely.

There's a lot to learn before you can responsibly breed your boy. Can you
hook up with a mentor who's accomplished a lot in the breed? That person
can point you to how to make your boy more "marketable" as a stud:

Knowledgable bitch owners will want to know that he's demonstrated that he
looks and acts the way a Weim should - so you'll probably want to show him
in the Conformation ring and also put some performance titles on him. If I
were looking for a Weim puppy, I'd be seeking out pups whose parents had
met the conformation standards and had some field titles on them.

You also have a number of health testing hurdles to pass - far above and
beyond the run-of-the-mill vet check.

Try to connect with your local Weim club to get started on learning more...

And before you go calling a reasonable regular a troll, consider your own
presentation and behaviour first.

Kate
--
and Storm, the FCR

What is obvious, troll, is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
For you to make snap judgements about people and their intentions, in some
cases after only reading a single post of theirs, shows that you are
judgeMENTAL, rude, narrowminded, and think that you know it all. No one
likes a "know it all". Thank YOU for clearing that up so I can add you to
my ignore list as early as possible.

You are dismissed, bitch.

-HP


"J1Boss" wrote in message
...
From: "Hercule Poirot"

J1TROLL-

uh no - pot - kettle - black

You aren't someone seriously interested in your breed or your dog, you're
out
to make a buck - it's very clear now - thanks for making that obvious.


Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

"Hercule Poirot" wrote in message
...

We are finding that many folks would like Weims as pets, based on seeing
our
fine dogs, and are unable to find any. I myself searched for several
months
until I found a decent breeder and the perfect pups.

Lastly, not that it's a huge indicator, but when most people have no idea
what breed our dogs are that says to me that it is "somewhat rare". If it
was a hugely popular breed, more folks would say "Naturally, that's a
Weimaraner."

HP, just a word of caution. Boxers used to be pretty rare as pets in the
grand scheme of things. They started gaining more attention, particularly
from Westminster shows, and now the breed is suffering terrible
overpopulation and euthanasia rates. Everyone started breeding them to
supply the public with the Boxers they couldn't find easily. People feel in
love with the look of the breed but knew nothing about what it took to live
with, train & exercise them. In the last 3 years the breed has been
flooding shelters at all ages, particularly the age of 1-3 years. People
want them, they buy them, they soon find out they can't just sit on their
fannies and do nothing with them, so the dog becomes an untrained,
attention-seeking, nuisance and is subsequently dumped at the nearest
shelter. Out of 4-5 Boxer rescues in the state of NC alone, they can hardly
make a dent in the overpopulation problem. For every one that's taken in by
a rescue, several more die in shelters due to lack of space. Used to be, 3
years ago, there was only 1.5 Boxer rescues in that state and while they
stayed full, they were able to meet the demand. Now 4-5 (one of them is
on-again-off-again) of them, with an average of 10 foster spaces each, can't
handle the demand.

I point this out because I've heard that while Weims are wonderful dogs,
they aren't for just the average person who doesn't want to put any time
into training, socializing or exercising their dog. Same goes with most
breeds but I think the general public tends to expect easy dogs that they
can bring in, housetrain, and just live peacefully with, expecting the dog
to occupy itself.


--
Tara

"Hercule Poirot" wrote in message
...
My wife and I are preparing to breed our male Weimaraner. We will be
doing
[..]

Also, if inbreeding is such a big issue, why doesn't the AKC have
standards
and prerequisites for registration, e.g. "We don't offer registration for
inbred dogs."


Perhaps you might want to take this discussion to
http://www.weimaraner-forum.org.uk

You probably won't like to hear what experienced breeders and competing
patrons of the breed (from around the world though mostly the site is UK)
have to say, but at least you should end up with a good understanding of why
you need to know so much more b4 contemplating breeding your pet dog.

Diana (& Cin, the loonytoon weim pup)